Question:
> I predict that larger seats will be installed for the flying portly, > and the rest of us will pay more for our flights to offset this cost.
I predict that they wont and that hippos will be charged for the use of two seats, as they should be. > I believe such is inevitable in our present, ‘everyone’s fault > but our own’ society, along with the ideal that anyone who > claims discrimination should be granted protection.
More fool you.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I predict that larger seats will be installed for the flying portly, >and the rest of us will pay more for our flights to offset this cost. > I predict that they wont and that hippos will be > charged for the use of two seats, as they should be. >I believe such is inevitable in our present, ‘everyone’s fault >but our own’ society, along with the ideal that anyone who >claims discrimination should be granted protection. > More fool you.
Why do you care, bowel boy? Welfare leeches can not afford to travel.
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> —–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– > I think you are right and there should be larger seats for the larger > passenger. The airline doctrine of "fit as many sardines in the plane > as you can so we can make more money" is passe dead but no one seems > to notice.
Ummm… Wake up and smell the coffee Lady. Haven’t you noticed the airlines have been in trouble financially for the past several years? They can’t make it as-is, and you want them to eat the extra costs for the fatties that can’t lay off the extra twinkies? Here’s a few choice links: http://cnnstudentnews.cnn.com/2002/fyi/lesson.plans/12/09/united/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A14224-2005Mar30.html http://www.ityt.com/archives/vanguard_bankruptcy/ http://www.hawaiianair.com/about/corporate/NewsRelease/Section_407.asp http://bankrupt.com/ata.txt http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/special/terror/economy/1054809 http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2002/Sep-07-Sat-2002/business/… http://www.tiaca.org/articles/2003/04/01/AD90459E46E54C5E8EAE5E3B892B… http://www.luchtzak.be/article1799.html http://www.hasbrouck.org/articles/bankruptcy.html All of this is within the last several years. > Too bad. Remember fat people spend also and can talk with their > wallets.
Good. How ’bout using those wallets to actually act responsible, and not ask the airlines and the other non-fat passengers to pick up part of their excess costs. > People like SW Airlines will eventually bankrupt themselves > if the right person challenges their obtuse behavior.
And when y’all dumbasses bankrupt ‘em all, who you gonna fly with then? Moron!
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> The matter is simple, charge passengers by the pound as if they were > UPS packages. When you buy your ticket, you enter your weight.
And then the skinny folks would have to walk. The airlines couldn’t afford to sell them seats.
Response:
> Airline making heavyset flyers buy extra seat > Southwest policy doesn’t sit well with 300-pound dentist > Sunday, March 13, 2005 > By Dan Fitzpatrick, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
<<snipped>> > the dentist’s large frame would > not fit entirely in the 17-inch-wide space.
<<snipped>> Interesting that the people Southwest hires to fit out their aircraft think 17" between armrests is a good dimension. Take a tape measure to the chair you’re sitting in right now. I can bet you it’ll be alot wider than 17". Mine’s 21", and it’s your run of the mill ‘manager’s chair’ from Office Depot.
Response:
> Airline making heavyset flyers buy extra seat > Southwest policy doesn’t sit well with 300-pound dentist > Sunday, March 13, 2005 > By Dan Fitzpatrick, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette > <<snipped>> > the dentist’s large frame would > not fit entirely in the 17-inch-wide space. > Interesting that the people Southwest hires to fit out their aircraft think > 17" between armrests is a good dimension.
It is for an aircraft. > Take a tape measure to the chair you’re sitting in right now. I can bet you > it’ll be alot wider than 17".
Irrelevant, those aint aircraft seats, stupid. > Mine’s 21", and it’s your run of the mill ‘manager’s chair’ from Office Depot.
Try something more appropriate like a car seat, stupid.
Response:
>> He vows never again to fly Southwest, even after its starts service from > Pittsburgh in May. "I just want the public to realize what can happen to > them if they fly Southwest." > People are always vowing to not fly this airline or that airline, but > virtually no one actually sticks to such a policy. In the end, it’s > usually price or convenience that wins. Airlines know this.
I suspect you’re incorrect in assuming that Southwest won’t lose much of their overweight clientele. Having to deal with the potential humiliation of being told you’ll have to buy two seats can’t be something such people look forward to, especially when they don’t know for sure, ahead of time, whether that’s going to be the case or not. However, Southwest’s bottom line most likely profits from the loss of such clientele, since the rest of their passengers feel they’re less likely to have their space invaded by an oversized neighbor (and thus more likely to fly Southwest), plus fuel savings, plus whatever positives might come from people seeing an airline that’s unafraid to stand up to lawsuits. –Mike– Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReactionBicycles.com.
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There is a reality show on TV at the moment which features this airline – I am amazed that Southwest management allowed this to be done as every episode shows Southwest staff treating customers in a disgraceful manner – rude, overbearing, and officious seem to be essesential qualifications for getting a job with that company, and I am so surprised that people still use it. David – who would not tolerate being treated the those Southwest staff treat customers
……. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> He vows never again to fly Southwest, even after its starts service from > Pittsburgh in May. "I just want the public to realize what can happen to > them if they fly Southwest."
Response:
> There is a reality show on TV at the moment which features this airline
Yep, Airline USA. > I am amazed that Southwest management allowed this to be done
More fool you. > as every episode shows Southwest staff > treating customers in a disgraceful manner
Bullshit. > – rude, overbearing, and officious seem to be essesential > qualifications for getting a job with that company,
Mindless stuff. > and I am so surprised that people still use it.
More fool you. > David – who would not tolerate being treated > the those Southwest staff treat customers
Clearly all those who do use Southwest feel otherwise. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> He vows never again to fly Southwest, even after its starts > service from Pittsburgh in May. "I just want the public to > realize what can happen to them if they fly Southwest."
Response:
<headers trimmed> >There is a reality show on TV at the moment which features this airline – I am >amazed that Southwest management allowed this to be done as every episode >shows Southwest staff treating customers in a disgraceful manner – rude, >overbearing, and officious seem to be essesential qualifications for getting a >job with that company, and I am so surprised that people still use it. >David – who would not tolerate being treated the those Southwest staff treat >customers
You are either high, or we must have watched two different programs. On the show that I watched, Southwest employees were amazingly restrained in the face of stupid, selfish, loathsome whiners who, in a perfect world, would have spent a week in the stockade for their immature behavior. Tell you what, David: how about I approach you at your workplace and behave like these Southwest customers. We’ll record the conversation, and later on we’ll see just how you behaved during our little interaction. – TR – pay your fare, find your seat, sit the fuck down and shut the fuck up. Or take the fucking Greyhound.
Response:
> However, Southwest’s bottom line most likely profits from the loss of such > clientele, since the rest of their passengers feel they’re less likely to > have their space invaded by an oversized neighbor
Yeah ! Southwest for me !
Response:
> There is a reality show on TV at the moment which features this airline – > I am amazed that Southwest management allowed this to be done as every > episode shows Southwest staff treating customers in a disgraceful manner – > rude, overbearing, and officious seem to be essesential qualifications for > getting a job with that company, and I am so surprised that people still > use it.
I’ve only seen a couple episodes of that program, but both of those were quite different to what you describe. The program I watched featured Southwest employees demonstrating superhuman feats of patience in the face of absolutely ridiculous behavior from customers. miguel — Hit The Road! Photos from 36 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu Latest photos: Jordan, Turkey, Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia, Israel
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Kenny writes: > Airline making heavyset flyers buy extra seat > Southwest policy doesn’t sit well with 300-pound dentist > Sunday, March 13, 2005 > By Dan Fitzpatrick, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette > All Murrysville dentist Michael Gigliotti wanted was a relatively cheap, > last-minute flight from his mother’s house in Florida to a natural-gas > auction in Texas. > Daniel Marsula, Post-Gazette > But a $552 bill for the late-February trip quickly went up when a > late-boarding passenger complained he could not fit in the seat next to the > 5-11, 300-pound Gigliotti. A supervisor from Southwest Airlines boarded the > plane, crouched next to Gigliotti and said he would have to pay for a > second seat on the return flight, claiming the dentist’s large frame would > not fit entirely in the 17-inch-wide space. > Gigliotti did not feel humiliation — just rage. > "This won’t hold up in court," he told the Southwest supervisor. > "It already has," was her response, according to Gigliotti.
He can change airlines or lose weight. > "The airline seats are simply too small for a high percentage of the flying > public," Gigliotti said. "We are getting bigger, we’re getting taller, > we’re getting wider."
Americans are getting fatter, but they are not getting bigger or taller–that trend ended several decades ago. It’s just fat today. > But "I still think it’s discriminatory to make me buy two seats," said the > 5-foot-1, 350-pound Ray Worley …
Five-foot-one and 350 pounds? He must be wider than he is tall. > He vows never again to fly Southwest, even after its starts service from > Pittsburgh in May. "I just want the public to realize what can happen to > them if they fly Southwest."
People are always vowing to not fly this airline or that airline, but virtually no one actually sticks to such a policy. In the end, it’s usually price or convenience that wins. Airlines know this. — Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Response:
>> There is a reality show on TV at the moment which features this airline >Yep, Airline USA.
[...snipped...] Hi Roddles, long time no see. Which group are you viewing this from? Haven’t seen you in rec.travel.air (the group I am viewing from) before. Dave ===== NSW Rural Fire Service – become a volunteer today. http://www.rfs.nsw.gov.au/
Response:
>>> There is a reality show on TV at the moment which features this airline >Yep, Airline USA. > [...snipped...] > Hi Roddles, long time no see. > Which group are you viewing this from? Haven’t seen you > in rec.travel.air (the group I am viewing from) before.
I have showed up via crossposting a bit in the past. Usually threads like this one about hippos flying. There was another about the annual leave in various countrys from memory.
Response:
>> If I pay for 33 inches I want my 33 inches. > Joseph Meehan > Although I agree with you entirely, I would hate to see your words > taken out of context. No wonder most of us aren’t politicans, we > couldn’t stand the scrutiny.
I am out of that area for now. :-) > Can you imagine the press release? "Here’s a transcript of Joe’s > conversation with a male hooker, who obviously didn’t give him > for a refund for a male enhancement pill he purchased over the > internet, because it did provide the desired result……:" > Keith <mind in the gutter>
– Joseph Meehan Dia’s Muire duit
Response:
I predict that larger seats will be installed for the flying portly, and the rest of us will pay more for our flights to offset this cost. I believe such is inevitable in our present, ‘everyone’s fault but our own’ society, along with the ideal that anyone who claims discrimination should be granted protection.
Response:
Gilgliotti should have said," we are getting fatter, greedier, more selfish, more complaining….."
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> However, Southwest’s bottom line most likely profits from the loss of > such > clientele, since the rest of their passengers feel they’re less likely to > have their space invaded by an oversized neighbor > Yeah ! > Southwest for me !
Response:
– Joseph Meehan Dia’s Muire duit
> Airline making heavyset flyers buy extra seat > Southwest policy doesn’t sit well with 300-pound dentist > Sunday, March 13, 2005 … > He vows never again to fly Southwest, even after its starts service from > Pittsburgh in May. "I just want the public to realize what can happen to > them if they fly Southwest."
I hope that means I don’t have to worry so much about having my space (that I paid the same amount for) being used by another passenger who did not help pay from my space. If I pay for 33 inches I want my 33 inches. I don’t want to loose 3 inches to the next person. I believe it is only fair that if they need more room, they pay for it. — Joseph Meehan Dia’s Muire duit
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>If I pay for 33 inches I want my 33 inches. > Joseph Meehan
Although I agree with you entirely, I would hate to see your words taken out of context. No wonder most of us aren’t politicans, we couldn’t stand the scrutiny. Can you imagine the press release? "Here’s a transcript of Joe’s conversation with a male hooker, who obviously didn’t give him everything male enhancement pill he purchased over the internet, because it did provide the desired result……:" Keith <mind in the gutter>
Response:
> But "I still think it’s discriminatory to make me buy two seats," said the > 5-foot-1, 350-pound Ray Worley, of the National Association to Advance Fat > Acceptance, who often will call ahead before booking flights to make sure > there is enough room. "I believe I am entitled to the space I take
up." For crying out loud, these people take up TWO seats and they expect to only pay for one? You’re not entitled to the space you take up if that space is paid for by another person. The matter is simple, charge passengers by the pound as if they were UPS packages. When you buy your ticket, you enter your weight. When you board, your ticket price is adjusted by any discrepancy.
Response:
Airline making heavyset flyers buy extra seat Southwest policy doesn’t sit well with 300-pound dentist Sunday, March 13, 2005 By Dan Fitzpatrick, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette All Murrysville dentist Michael Gigliotti wanted was a relatively cheap, last-minute flight from his mother’s house in Florida to a natural-gas auction in Texas. Daniel Marsula, Post-Gazette But a $552 bill for the late-February trip quickly went up when a late-boarding passenger complained he could not fit in the seat next to the 5-11, 300-pound Gigliotti. A supervisor from Southwest Airlines boarded the plane, crouched next to Gigliotti and said he would have to pay for a second seat on the return flight, claiming the dentist’s large frame would not fit entirely in the 17-inch-wide space. Gigliotti did not feel humiliation — just rage. "This won’t hold up in court," he told the Southwest supervisor. "It already has," was her response, according to Gigliotti. The exchange captures a touchy topic in aviation — how to deal with larger passengers as the nation’s waistline expands. More than one-fourth of Americans are now classified as obese, and in an industry obsessed with fitting as many people as possible inside a giant aluminum tube, airline seats have shrunk to 16 inches measured from arm rest to arm rest — narrower than an average-size computer keyboard and a tighter fit than the typical office chair or general-admission movie seat. "The airline seats are simply too small for a high percentage of the flying public," Gigliotti said. "We are getting bigger, we’re getting taller, we’re getting wider." Southwest is not the only major airline with a large-seating policy. US Airways, Northwest Airlines and America West Airlines all can require an overweight passenger to pay for two seats but said they do everything they can to find a pair of empty adjoining seats on the plane at no additional charge. Midwest Connect, which serves Pittsburgh from Milwaukee, requires that passengers unable to fit in one seat buy two; if there are other seats available on the same flight, they will be refunded for the second. But other carriers serving Pittsburgh, including United Airlines and Delta Air Lines, have no large-seating requirements. Hooters Air, an airline featuring slim, scantily-clad "Hooters girls" as flight entertainment, has no such policy, either. "We love large people," said Hooters Air President Mark Peterson. Hooters, which flies from Pittsburgh to Myrtle Beach, S.C., has never charged for an extra seat, he said, and fitting a larger passenger onboard has never been an issue in two years of operating the airline. While critics of Southwest’s policy acknowledge that other airlines do the same thing, some said Southwest deserves to be singled out for its rigidity. "Southwest really expects its employees to enforce it, " said Mary Ray Worley, a board member on the Sacramento, Calif.-based National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance. At other airlines, she said, "it seems to me their employees exercise a lot more of their own judgment in enforcing or not enforcing their policies. A lot depends on the prejudices of the employees involved." The large-seating policy is nothing new for the Dallas low-fare carrier, considered one of the industry’s most successful companies, having made a profit 31 years in a row. It initiated a "customer of size" policy in 1980, requiring a larger passenger unable to fit in one seat to pay for two. But the airline, saying it could no longer ignore complaints from slimmer passengers, began enforcing the policy more vigilantly in 2002, requiring passengers to pay for the extra space even if others were available on the same flight. A refund is made available if the flight takes off with empty seats. Each case is a judgment call. There are no scales at the check-in counter. The test appears to be whether a passenger can sit in one seat without lifting the armrest. The increase in enforcement, leaked in a 2002 memo from Southwest President Colleen Barrett, sparked a few lawsuits and criticism from fat acceptance groups as well as jokes from NBC "Tonight Show" comedian Jay Leno. The negative attention was unusual for Southwest, used to glowing PR. Leno, in one of his monologues, stuck it to the Texas company, saying, "Boy, Southwest is cracking down on overweight passengers. Now any fat people standing in front of the terminal for more than 15 minutes will be towed." In another joke, he said Southwest had "been overstating each passenger’s weight by 80 pounds so they can sell more fat ass seats." Southwest spokesman Ed Stewart attributed the controversy to "entertainment value." He mentioned the jokes from Leno and said "the reason you do it is because you think you can get a laugh out of it and it is something that affects everybody." The constant attention has "nothing to do with news value." It is little more than "people liking to make fun of other people." Most passengers, he said, like the policy. "For every 10 letters you get, nine of them will say they did not enjoy their flight because someone was sitting on them." Stewart said. A few, though, were upset enough to sue. New Hampshire businesswoman Nadine Thompson filed a lawsuit last year claiming she had no problem fitting into a Southwest seat but still was asked to pay for a second seat on a Manchester, N.H.-Chicago flight. When she refused, she was escorted from the plane, according to her lawsuit. Another woman in Spokane, Wash., filed a suit last year saying Southwest humiliated her in front of other passengers on a Orlando-Spokane flight, and that she spent the ride home in tears over her experience. But no one yet has been successful in overturning the policy in court. In 2000, a California judge ruled that Southwest’s policy was "reasonable and not discriminatory" after a woman weighing 300 pounds sued. The woman’s civil rights were not violated, the court said. But "I still think it’s discriminatory to make me buy two seats," said the 5-foot-1, 350-pound Ray Worley, of the National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance, who often will call ahead before booking flights to make sure there is enough room. "I believe I am entitled to the space I take up. It’s a basic civil right issue. A lot of people believe it is within my control to be whatever size I am. That is completely false." When Southwest began enforcing its policy more strictly, it went before the National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance’s annual convention in Atlanta to explain it. It did not go well, according to Ray Worley, who was there. If Southwest hoped to make the policy more palatable, "They completely failed. … The impression I got was they do not want fat people flying their airline. They don’t want our business. They want us to go away." "What would make me want to fly Southwest?" Airline industry expert Terry Trippler said his biggest problem with the policy is its lack of consistency. If gate agents on one end of a round trip allow a large passenger to pay for only one seat, then the gate agents in another city should arrive at the same decision. But it doesn’t always happen that way, Trippler said, and "everybody doesn’t always have twice as much money for the airline ticket." "It’s a tough call." Gigliotti, the Murrysville dentist, also has a problem with the way the policy is applied. "I think there has to be a measurable standard," he said. "The standard should be, can you put the arms down?" Gigliotti, who said his shoulders are wider than his waist from weightlifting, claims that he was able to get his arms down "without undue stress." The company, on its web site, said the armrest is the "definitive gauge." But in a Q&A about the policy on its Web site, Southwest said employees can still question the passenger "if a concern exists. … Condoning an unsafe, cramped seating arrangement onboard our aircraft is far more inappropriate than simply questioning a customer’s fit in our seats." Asked about Gigliotti’s experience, Stewart, the Southwest spokesman, said, "I am sure he is a very slim 300 pounds" and it is "always going to be a judgment call." But every time the policy has been challenged, in court, "we have prevailed." Gigliotti was not charged extra for one leg of his trip, from Tampa to San Antonio, but he was charged for a second seat on the return trip to Tampa, despite the presence of other empty seats on the plane, he said. He was able to get a refund by calling a customer service number, but the experience is still with him. He fired off a letter last week to Southwest calling its policy "arbitrary and capricious." He vows never again to fly Southwest, even after its starts service from Pittsburgh in May. "I just want the public to realize what can happen to them if they fly Southwest."
Response:
Given my druthers I would put them on my Discover and get the 1% cash back! But he’s the boss and owns the company…. Kevin Rhodes Westbrook, Maine Fearless computer installer – 33 segments and 20K miles on Northwest so far this year – gonna be a Platinum year at this rate! Gotta love the new segment rule. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I offered to help pay for my brother to bring his family here for a > few days this summer to attend my wedding. I thought that it might be easier > if I just paid for the whole trip and had him reimburse me half plus I’d get > the frequent flyer mileage credit. (They don’t mind that.) While I was > shopping for flight and hotel prices, a thought occurred to me: if the > tickets > are paid on my credit card, but have their names on them, will they get the > "Scarlet Letter" rectal exam boarding passes? If so, then maybe I’ll tell > them > to pay for their own flights and I’ll reimburse them. After all, earning FF > miles isn’t worth the increased search hassle. > Sharon